Ah, the Narcissist vs the Sociopath debate. Yikes! Brianna Dollcast with the duck face, eye rolling and fake valley girl sighs. And Marci, refering to breast tissue as "breast material". His patients aren't human beings, they're sculpting material.
And when he said young trans masc's should get mastectomies to avoid being killed like in the movie Boy's Don't Cry. Talking about his daughter's breast and them showing discomfort (and him noticing this) instead of pride was deeply disturbing. I think AGP.
I try and do my part but the real hero’s are the ones on the road pretty full time testifying this spring. Jamie alone has already testified in 6? maybe 7 states and the same for Cori.
CANNOT WAIT TO WATCH THIS RESPONSE. I watched the podcast on Saturday and could hardly stomach it. I was yelling at my computer. They both make me sick, and I have felt that way about Wu ever since he started trying to be ‘reasonable’. Yeah, and I’ve got waterfront property in Arizona. He is a master manipulator and understands debate and conversation tactics like disarm the person right from the start with some kinship or point of agreement. Greasy.
Haha...Brianna Wu is a mess, but Bowers is unable to defend a position without getting personally offended and self-righteously defensive. And that characterizes this whole debate, doesn't it? If you say, "I'm concerned about the medicalization of children, and I think there should be a discussion about preserving sex-segregated spaces," trans activists auto-translate that, "I want trans people to die, and I am willing to wield the dagger."
I think society handles disagreements in three ways: consensus, compromise and conflict. Consensus is best, but compromise will do when that fails. Trans activists have rejected the first two, which leaves us with conflict. Given that trans people are outnumbered at least 150 to one, I don't think conflict is going to work out for them.
P.S. The moderate on that debate is simply awful. His job is to keep the participants on track and make sure they're not just bickering, and he refuses to at least try either one.
Thank you, Jamie and Cori, for this and for all you do, around the country, to get the word out and to change things for the better. And thanks LeAnne, for sharing this, and Pear, for joining the conversation and your insights. I am deeply grateful to you all and I'd call folks attention to the modest request for contributions at the end.
I’m curious why you call a trans woman he and a trans man he? It would seem that you should call the trans man she if you’re sticking with using the pronouns of their biological sex? Do you see them differently somehow?
Bowers is apparently a trans woman, not a trans man (i guess the article has a typo). So they are both being intentionally misgendered, despite passing as their preferred gender.
Brianna Wu is a male who thinks it’s okay to castrate male children. You are welcome to call him a she but I don’t live in Wu’s reality tunnel and refer to people when I write by sex based pronouns.
Even if you do take umbrage with Wu's overall position and believe Marina is incorrect I still urge you to think more carefully about what your reply is saying.
This seems to imply that the reason you refer to Wu as "he" is due to "his" thoughts, rather than "his" sex. You're taking Mariana's position (we should call Wu "she" because "she" is one of the "good ones") and reversing the premise ("Wu is bad actually") rather than cutting straight to the core issue Mariana raised about "misgendering". Please don't get lost in the mire.
A woman is someone whose body developed or is developing to produce eggs. Those with disorders are usually easily determined to be either male or female too. None depend on how you think and none change.
Telling young men that mimicking a female's role in heterosexual sex makes them female (or talking about hair?!) is unfortunately what is leading many of them to drugs and surgery. Calling a skin pocket a female's birth canal is deceptive. A woman is not just a man who has removed parts. Or takes a pill. Telling kids they can change sex is false and cruel and dangerous.
The regret when these young men figure it out is sometimes devastating.
A 70 year old with Botox and drugs is not 20.
Does Wu ever tell anyone that it's even unknown how many wish they'd not had medical intervention?
i wish Wu good health and happiness but not anyone's trust-fact checks are usually badly needed and Wu also shuts down people who are being accurate, like Sapir.
Wu doesn't want to be a woman, he wants to be an animé doll. These men couldn't possibly know what being a woman is like, so how could they want to be one. The pronoun debate is silly anyway.
Yes, it’s obvious that shes trans. But why deliberately misgender a trans person who obviously does everything in their power to live as their preferred gender?
I refer to people by their biological sex when I write. This being nice argument is how we ended up with men in female locker rooms sports and prisons. I am reality based in my writing.
Brianna has publicly advocated for the sterilization and mutilation of effeminate male minors in almost every interview or debate he’s ever done on this topic. He is not “on our side.” Acknowledging that a man is a man is not mean. “Man” is not an insult, it’s just reality.
Thats not really true. Wu has not argued for transitioning boys who are effeminate. She acknowledges that most effeminate boys are just gay and should not be transitioned.
Brianna Wu has argued for transitioning male children with persistent, psychologically painful gender dysphoria that has arisen unprompted from a very young age. Such children have been documented in medical research since before all this trans madness sadly became the monster it is today.
Im not saying I agree with Wu. I do not agree that puberty blockers or cross sex hormones should be given to children. They are too dangerous for a person to consent to before they are a full-fledged adult.
Marci Bowers is a trans woman and is also being called "he".
It is profoundly insulting to members of an oppressed class, women, to be told to talk about a member of their oppressor class, men, who is co-opting and misappropriating our material reality as if he is also a member of our oppressed class.
I am with you in principle, maybe even further past you. If it were up to me, I'd clarify a person's asserted gender identity and observed sex up front and then use gender-based pronouns, but in this space at least I do see a consistent effort to use sex-based pronouns. I feel consistency and clarity are most important, and (dis)respect follows from how one speaks of a person's behavior and words, not linguistic conventions. When a linguistic convention slides around according to how you feel about someone though, I think you slip into the territory of favoritism and its mirror, bigotry.
I agree, its not about how one feels about someone. I am for calling Bowers by her preferred pronoun, despite being very against what she is doing.
I am NOT for calling a rapist man by “she” because he wants to get into a women’s prison.
I am not for calling a man “she” because he wants to beat women’s records in sports.
I am for calling a male “she” if they make a sincere effort to live and pass as women and do not use their status to infringe on or abuse women in female spaces.
It's not mean. For the safety and dignity of (actual) women it's necessary. As long as we lie regarding a person's sex, we normalize the abuse of women. The problem with trans-identified men is not that they're trans. It's that they're men. This is not an indictment of men in general. It is simply a recognition of what's true at the biological level which translates into inherent differences between the sexes.
I don't care how Mr. Wu dresses, as long as he's not encroaching on the rights of women. Unfortunately, in order to be "polite" to Mr. Wu, he's allowed to do just that, according to the progressive policies now in place that give men the "respect" you believe they deserve, while in the same breath respect for women is erased.
"Identifying" as something that one is not is a choice, but that doesn't mean that I'm obligated to parrot it back.
The existential rights of women are violated when trans-identified men are given access to women's prisons, sports, shelters, locker rooms, bathrooms, etc. The evolutionary, biology-based differences between the sexes are immutable and must not be blurred, because the extra level of privacy and safety that women require does not disappear simply because a man calls himself "she."
Note that the reverse scenario is never an issue. No man ever has said "we can't allow trans-identified women in our locker rooms, bathrooms, or prisons, because they walk around naked showing off their junk, harass, ogle, assault and rape us, and we can't defend ourselves because women are just too big and strong for us men. And allowing women to compete against us in sports means that we will be perpetual losers and it will demoralize men and turn men's sports in a travesty."
But even worse than the sports issue is the prison issue. Right now, due to the corruption of language that trans activism has enabled, women's prisons are housing violent male felons who demand that we call them "she," men who've been convicted of acts of mutilation, rape, and murder of women, who harass, ogle, assault and rape female inmates, because progressive policies have more compassion for men than for the women they mimic and abuse.
Out of respect and concern for the safety and dignity of women, we will not relinquish the accurate nouns "woman" and "man" and the pronouns that refer to those nouns, regardless of how someone identifies.
Speaking honestly is the first step we must take if we care about women, and also, equally important and urgent, it keeps children from becoming confused regarding who and what they are, which in the current climate has reached epidemic proportions.
A man who identifies as a woman is not a woman. He is now and forever a man. Sorry. Not sorry.
Ah, the Narcissist vs the Sociopath debate. Yikes! Brianna Dollcast with the duck face, eye rolling and fake valley girl sighs. And Marci, refering to breast tissue as "breast material". His patients aren't human beings, they're sculpting material.
Oh God, for the part where Marci talks about his daughter’s breasts, I hand-drew a little barf emoji in my notes. 🤮
And when he said young trans masc's should get mastectomies to avoid being killed like in the movie Boy's Don't Cry. Talking about his daughter's breast and them showing discomfort (and him noticing this) instead of pride was deeply disturbing. I think AGP.
Thank you for what you do... you are a powerful voice that points out stealth in the shadows. With great courage indeed. Thank you
I try and do my part but the real hero’s are the ones on the road pretty full time testifying this spring. Jamie alone has already testified in 6? maybe 7 states and the same for Cori.
Yes-, you're right...I have so much admiration for what they do. And their integrity and self respect. But you're right- definitely their courage.
I'll pass a huge 'thank you' to them also!
Hi, is there a link to the reaction video that we could have? I’d like to see it.
Go to paragraph 2 of the article and click on report live and it will take you to the reaction video!
Thank you!
CANNOT WAIT TO WATCH THIS RESPONSE. I watched the podcast on Saturday and could hardly stomach it. I was yelling at my computer. They both make me sick, and I have felt that way about Wu ever since he started trying to be ‘reasonable’. Yeah, and I’ve got waterfront property in Arizona. He is a master manipulator and understands debate and conversation tactics like disarm the person right from the start with some kinship or point of agreement. Greasy.
Haha...Brianna Wu is a mess, but Bowers is unable to defend a position without getting personally offended and self-righteously defensive. And that characterizes this whole debate, doesn't it? If you say, "I'm concerned about the medicalization of children, and I think there should be a discussion about preserving sex-segregated spaces," trans activists auto-translate that, "I want trans people to die, and I am willing to wield the dagger."
I think society handles disagreements in three ways: consensus, compromise and conflict. Consensus is best, but compromise will do when that fails. Trans activists have rejected the first two, which leaves us with conflict. Given that trans people are outnumbered at least 150 to one, I don't think conflict is going to work out for them.
P.S. The moderate on that debate is simply awful. His job is to keep the participants on track and make sure they're not just bickering, and he refuses to at least try either one.
Thank you, Jamie and Cori, for this and for all you do, around the country, to get the word out and to change things for the better. And thanks LeAnne, for sharing this, and Pear, for joining the conversation and your insights. I am deeply grateful to you all and I'd call folks attention to the modest request for contributions at the end.
I’m curious why you call a trans woman he and a trans man he? It would seem that you should call the trans man she if you’re sticking with using the pronouns of their biological sex? Do you see them differently somehow?
It was a typo. Transmen are trans identified females and I try and always refer to them as she’s.
Bowers is apparently a trans woman, not a trans man (i guess the article has a typo). So they are both being intentionally misgendered, despite passing as their preferred gender.
Yes you are correct you caught a typo which will be corrected. Sometimes things slip through. The mistake was mine.
Why are you misgendering Ms Wu? Shes actually fighting the good fight.
Brianna Wu is a male who thinks it’s okay to castrate male children. You are welcome to call him a she but I don’t live in Wu’s reality tunnel and refer to people when I write by sex based pronouns.
Even if you do take umbrage with Wu's overall position and believe Marina is incorrect I still urge you to think more carefully about what your reply is saying.
This seems to imply that the reason you refer to Wu as "he" is due to "his" thoughts, rather than "his" sex. You're taking Mariana's position (we should call Wu "she" because "she" is one of the "good ones") and reversing the premise ("Wu is bad actually") rather than cutting straight to the core issue Mariana raised about "misgendering". Please don't get lost in the mire.
A woman is someone whose body developed or is developing to produce eggs. Those with disorders are usually easily determined to be either male or female too. None depend on how you think and none change.
Telling young men that mimicking a female's role in heterosexual sex makes them female (or talking about hair?!) is unfortunately what is leading many of them to drugs and surgery. Calling a skin pocket a female's birth canal is deceptive. A woman is not just a man who has removed parts. Or takes a pill. Telling kids they can change sex is false and cruel and dangerous.
The regret when these young men figure it out is sometimes devastating.
A 70 year old with Botox and drugs is not 20.
Does Wu ever tell anyone that it's even unknown how many wish they'd not had medical intervention?
i wish Wu good health and happiness but not anyone's trust-fact checks are usually badly needed and Wu also shuts down people who are being accurate, like Sapir.
Wu doesn't want to be a woman, he wants to be an animé doll. These men couldn't possibly know what being a woman is like, so how could they want to be one. The pronoun debate is silly anyway.
Seriously. He face! The surgery to create a cartoon face. Look at the posters on the wall.
Men can be very feminine if they so choose and I am okay with that. But they cannot be women.
Yes, it’s obvious that shes trans. But why deliberately misgender a trans person who obviously does everything in their power to live as their preferred gender?
I refer to people by their biological sex when I write. This being nice argument is how we ended up with men in female locker rooms sports and prisons. I am reality based in my writing.
Because it's the truth.
No one is arguing here that Ms Wu is a real woman. She’s obviously not. Shes a trans woman.
Im only arguing that trans women (who aren’t sexual predators) should be afforded the dignity of being called by their preferred pronoun.
Particularly when they are on our side and vocally against pushing gender ideology on kids!
Dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
Sane trans people like Wu and Buck Angel should be treated with respect as they are allies.
Brianna has publicly advocated for the sterilization and mutilation of effeminate male minors in almost every interview or debate he’s ever done on this topic. He is not “on our side.” Acknowledging that a man is a man is not mean. “Man” is not an insult, it’s just reality.
Thats not really true. Wu has not argued for transitioning boys who are effeminate. She acknowledges that most effeminate boys are just gay and should not be transitioned.
Brianna Wu has argued for transitioning male children with persistent, psychologically painful gender dysphoria that has arisen unprompted from a very young age. Such children have been documented in medical research since before all this trans madness sadly became the monster it is today.
Im not saying I agree with Wu. I do not agree that puberty blockers or cross sex hormones should be given to children. They are too dangerous for a person to consent to before they are a full-fledged adult.
There are actual trans people in the world, and they should be treated with dignity.
Cant we reserve sex-congruent gendering for those that are sexual predators masquerading as trans people?
Calling Ms Wu by male pronouns is just being mean IMO. You dont have to like how she presents her feminine. But she is the real deal.
It’s also inconsistent, because the other person in the debate is a trans man and is being referred to by their preferred gender. Yet not Ms Wu?
Marci Bowers is a trans woman and is also being called "he".
It is profoundly insulting to members of an oppressed class, women, to be told to talk about a member of their oppressor class, men, who is co-opting and misappropriating our material reality as if he is also a member of our oppressed class.
Oh, then I misunderstood re Bowers. She shouldnt be called “he” either, despite being on the very wrong side of history. Her comeuppance is anon.
But in America women are NOT an oppressed class. Let’s live in reality.
I am with you in principle, maybe even further past you. If it were up to me, I'd clarify a person's asserted gender identity and observed sex up front and then use gender-based pronouns, but in this space at least I do see a consistent effort to use sex-based pronouns. I feel consistency and clarity are most important, and (dis)respect follows from how one speaks of a person's behavior and words, not linguistic conventions. When a linguistic convention slides around according to how you feel about someone though, I think you slip into the territory of favoritism and its mirror, bigotry.
I agree, its not about how one feels about someone. I am for calling Bowers by her preferred pronoun, despite being very against what she is doing.
I am NOT for calling a rapist man by “she” because he wants to get into a women’s prison.
I am not for calling a man “she” because he wants to beat women’s records in sports.
I am for calling a male “she” if they make a sincere effort to live and pass as women and do not use their status to infringe on or abuse women in female spaces.
I think that's generally fair.
It’s unnecessarily mean. Like calling someone ugly or fat because its “the truth”
No one is being mean. It is being reality based. Would you tell an anorexic they were fat and encourage them to continue to lose weight?
But people who are ugly or fat don't demand that you call them beautiful or skinny. If they did, I suspect you would be unwilling to do that.
It's not mean. For the safety and dignity of (actual) women it's necessary. As long as we lie regarding a person's sex, we normalize the abuse of women. The problem with trans-identified men is not that they're trans. It's that they're men. This is not an indictment of men in general. It is simply a recognition of what's true at the biological level which translates into inherent differences between the sexes.
I don't care how Mr. Wu dresses, as long as he's not encroaching on the rights of women. Unfortunately, in order to be "polite" to Mr. Wu, he's allowed to do just that, according to the progressive policies now in place that give men the "respect" you believe they deserve, while in the same breath respect for women is erased.
"Identifying" as something that one is not is a choice, but that doesn't mean that I'm obligated to parrot it back.
The existential rights of women are violated when trans-identified men are given access to women's prisons, sports, shelters, locker rooms, bathrooms, etc. The evolutionary, biology-based differences between the sexes are immutable and must not be blurred, because the extra level of privacy and safety that women require does not disappear simply because a man calls himself "she."
Note that the reverse scenario is never an issue. No man ever has said "we can't allow trans-identified women in our locker rooms, bathrooms, or prisons, because they walk around naked showing off their junk, harass, ogle, assault and rape us, and we can't defend ourselves because women are just too big and strong for us men. And allowing women to compete against us in sports means that we will be perpetual losers and it will demoralize men and turn men's sports in a travesty."
But even worse than the sports issue is the prison issue. Right now, due to the corruption of language that trans activism has enabled, women's prisons are housing violent male felons who demand that we call them "she," men who've been convicted of acts of mutilation, rape, and murder of women, who harass, ogle, assault and rape female inmates, because progressive policies have more compassion for men than for the women they mimic and abuse.
Out of respect and concern for the safety and dignity of women, we will not relinquish the accurate nouns "woman" and "man" and the pronouns that refer to those nouns, regardless of how someone identifies.
Speaking honestly is the first step we must take if we care about women, and also, equally important and urgent, it keeps children from becoming confused regarding who and what they are, which in the current climate has reached epidemic proportions.
A man who identifies as a woman is not a woman. He is now and forever a man. Sorry. Not sorry.